Stunning Interview with the “Father of the Tenor Saxophone”




Austin Stetson: What really got you started in the arts?

Coleman Hawkins: Well, Austin, I was almost playing music coming out of my mother’s womb! I started with piano at the age of four. I then migrated to cello when I was seven. Those two instruments were a lot of fun and I liked them a lot, but what I really desired was to play saxophone. I picked up my first horn at the age of nine. It was a beautiful tenor saxophone. I fell in love with playing it. (Biography.com)

I became a professional when I was sixteen. I was performing one evening with a theater orchestra in Kansas City in 1922, when the talented Mamie Smith heard me playing. She came to me and asked me to join her Jazz Hounds. I gratefully accepted the offer and traveled with the group to New York where I made my first recordings. We then toured across the country for a good while after. From then on out, I was doing anything I could and playing with the best.



AS: What kind of mentors did you have? How did they help you develop the interests and talents you have as an artist?

CH: First, of course, was Mamie Smith. She got me into recording my music. I worked under the bandleader Fletcher Henderson from 1924-1934 (Solid!). I made many recordings with his orchestra during those ten years.

I’d have to say though, that my biggest influence was myself. I mean, there wasn’t really anything to go off of at the time. I was pretty much the first jazz tenor saxophonist. I got myself into it and worked really hard. But I was inspired by all the recordings being made by people like Mamie Smith and Billie Holiday. But Louis Armstrong inspired me the most when I played with him.



AS: Mmhmm… What was the musical world like when you came on the scene?

CH: Well, Tommy Dorsey really popularized the trombone in the early 20's. The biggest thing, though, had to be Louis Armstrong founding jazz for the 1920’s. He influenced almost every musician at the time, including me. He would experiment with many different styles, such as Hawaiian, gospel, bluegrass, and popular music of the time (Boland).

Jazz was just beginning to become popular by the time I arrived. Louis Armstrong helped popularize it a lot, and I would like to think that I did too. But a lot of people still hadn’t heard of jazz in the early 1920’s. Most people were more interested in Broadway musicals.






AS: How did the major cultural, economic, and political situations of the time impact your work?

CH: Well, culturally, there were some real emotional and material hardships going on. A lot of that helped me put more soul and passion in my music, as I think it did for many artists at the time. Also, people were being more pessimistic and having a lot of anxiety. I tried to convey that, yet also make people feel good with my music.

Economically, it got difficult at times. I didn’t get paid very much for shows, and not many people came out to see my shows because they couldn’t afford it. The Great Depression really hit everybody hard. People lost their jobs, their homes, and couldn’t afford things like food. It was really sad. So I, other jazz musicians, and other artists of the time, tried to put emotion in our art and really connect with the audience. The Great Depression brought some hard times, but also came with inspiration for me, and I’m sure for other artists as well.

Now, politically, there weren’t really any major things going on in the United States at the time. I wasn’t really affected by U.S. politics. Most of the changes were going on in Europe, which I didn’t really think about since I wasn’t living there and I didn’t affect me. But in 1934, I planned a tour of England with bandleader Jack Hylton (Solid!). We were on tour for about a year. Afterwards, I stayed in Europe for the next four years. I played all around the continent, and I felt the tensions between many countries. In 1939 I decided to return to New York in fear of the Second World War.



AS: That’s very interesting. Now, what were your major accomplishments, and were some of the methods you used to achieve these things?

CH: Well the first thing was definitely being recognized by Mamie Smith in Kansas City when I was only sixteen. But when I joined the Fletcher Henderson band in 1924, I felt like I had really made it. I was playing with fantastic musicians, including Louis Armstrong. I also recorded a very popular version of “Body and Soul” in 1939. But I feel my biggest accomplishment was being seen as an innovational artist, and being referred to as the “father of the tenor saxophone.”

As far as my methods go, I experimented with many different styles. I was said to have played inventive and harmonically advanced for my time. Also, when I played on slower pieces, I tried to go for a soft, rounded, smooth, and warm sound. But on faster swinging compositions, I went for a more vibrant, intense, fiery tone. Another thing I did was play along a “vertical” harmonic structure, which many saxophone players couldn’t do.



AS: What key opportunities did you have that led to turning points in your life and art?

CH: Well, like I said before, joining Mamie Smith’s Jazz Hounds was a huge opportunity for me. I was only sixteen at the time and it really launched me into the professional world. When I joined Fletcher Henderson’s band, I started becoming internationally known, not to mention the fact that I got to work with the incredible Louis Armstrong. Those ten years I spent with Henderson’s orchestra were probably the most influential and greatest years of my career.

All those things really launched me into international fame and greatness. I will never forget those people who helped me and the amazing opportunities I had in my career.



AS: What personal choices did you make to become successful?

CH: When I started playing the piano at the age of four, I really liked it a lot. Then I picked up the cello when I was seven. By this point, I wanted to do something with music. I wanted to be professional. But I didn’t want to do it on piano or cello. So, at the age of nine, I asked for a saxophone. When I started playing tenor sax, I really felt the energy, the emotion, the music. I knew this was what I wanted to do with my life.

Within a few years, I was playing at school dances. Everyone seemed to really enjoy my playing. I started to look for professional gigs I could get locally. I decided I would go off to college after high school. I attended Washburn University in Topeka, Kansas. To help pay for tuition and everything, I played at different venues with different orchestras on a regular basis. After a while, people started to notice me and ask about me. Soon thereafter I was playing with some of the best musicians in the world.



AS: That’s really something. What hardships or roadblocks did you have to overcome in order to be an artist?

CH: In the beginning, it was just my youth. I was the youngest one in almost all of the groups I was in. Some people didn’t respect me or take me seriously because I was so young. But really the big thing was my ethnicity. African-American discrimination was horrible at the time, and I didn’t think I would be able to become a professional artist because I’m black. Many people didn’t accept the black musicians of the time, but most of us made it through the racism.

In Europe, people really didn’t like black people. There were just a select few who welcomed us. But they only did so because they liked our music. They would rather us have been white than black to make such good music. People just didn’t want African-Americans to be successful.



AS: As both an artist and a person, what kinds of limitations did you run into?

CH: Well, again, the racism and discrimination and all of that were very difficult. I feel like if people hadn’t been so racist, I, and many other black artists of the time would’ve been more successful. We would’ve made more money as well.

But the biggest limitation I ran into was my issue with alcohol. I had a serious drinking problem that affected my family and my career. My wife and kids didn’t like it when I drank, but I felt like I had to do it. It was something I needed. Some of the musicians I played with didn’t like how much I drank either. At a certain point, I really started to regret my alcohol consumption. But it didn’t majorly affect my music; just the people around me.



AS: Lastly, do you have any personal stories that illustrate how you became successful in music that you would like to share?

CH: Haha. Actually yeah I do. When Mamie Smith noticed me in Kansas City, it was kind of a fluke that I was playing there that night. I wasn’t going to do anything that night, but I decided I would go play with the orchestra and make a little money. I didn’t even play as good as I had before, and she still thought I was great!

I just think it’s pretty funny how it all happened. I wanted to make some money playing with an orchestra in Kansas City, when a professional singer comes to a show, likes me, and asks me to be in her group! Haha! I am very grateful for it though. She really opened a lot of doors for me.



AS: Alright. Well, thank you for your time, Mr. Hawkins.

CH: You got it.

Sources Used




Boland, Jesse. "1920s Music: Jazz was America's Gift to the Musical World." Web. .



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Waldstein, David. "Coleman Hawkins Biography." Web. .



Whitley, Peggy. "American Cultural History 1920-1929." 1999. Web. .



"America in the 1920s and 1930s." 123HelpMe.com. 10 Mar 2010

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"Coleman Hawkins Biography." Solid!. Parabrisas, 2005. Web. .



"Coleman Hawkins Biography." Book Rags. Web. .



“Coleman Hawkins.” 2010. Biography.com. 10 Mar 2010, 05:22

http://biography.com/articles/Coleman-Hawkins-9331743



"Coleman Hawkins." New World Encyclopedia. 6 Aug 2009, 23:33 UTC. 13 Mar 2010, 17:40 .



"Coleman 'Hawk' Hawkins (1904-1969)." Web. .



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"Effects of World War One." Web. .



Henderson, Alex. "Coleman Hawkins, Bill Evans Trio and Gene Ammons." All About Jazz. 1998. Web. .

Works Cited


Body and Soul Album Cover. Digital image. Web. 7 Apr. 2010.     .

Body and Sould Sheet Music. Digital image. Sheet Music Plus. Web. 7 Apr. 2010. .

Coleman Hawkins LBG Melody. Digital image. Type Pad. Web. 7 Apr. 2010. .

Esquire All Stars At The Met Album Cover. Digital image. Images Amazon. Web. 7 Apr. 2010. .

The Hawk Flies High. Digital image. Web. 7 Apr. 2010. .

Hawkins Special Mouthpieces. Digital image. Theo Wanne. Web. 7 Apr. 2010. .

"The Indispensable Coleman Hawkins "Body and Soul"" Jazz Tribune. Web. 7 Apr. 2010. .

Portrait of Coleman Hawkins. Digital image. Nostalgic Radio. Web. 7 Apr. 2010. .

SML Sax. Digital image. Sax on the Web. Web. 7 Apr. 2010. .

YouTube - Coleman Hawkins - Body & Soul. Perf. Coleman Hawkins. YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. 5 May 2007. Web. 7 Apr. 2010. .

YouTube - Coleman Hawkins "JAMAICA SHOUT" (1933). Perf. Henry Allen, Coleman Hawkins, J C Higgenbotham, Hilton Jefferson. YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. 12 May 2009. Web. 7 Apr. 2010. .

Jamaica Shout

Body and Soul